[PVE-User] pve-user Digest, Vol 157, Issue 12

Tue Apr 13 10:44:36 CEST 2021

Hi Oleksii, if you want to unsuscribe this list please go to 
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Best regards

Piviul

Il 12/04/21 00:43, Oleksii Tokovenko ha scritto:
>    unsibscribe
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> нд, 11 квіт. 2021 о 13:00 <pve-user-request at lists.proxmox.com> пише:
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>     1. Re: Revisited: External disk backup using PBS - Requesting
>>        Criticism/Advice? (Lindsay Mathieson)
>>     2. PBS Incremental and stopped VM's (Lindsay Mathieson)
>>     3. Re: PBS Incremental and stopped VM's (Arjen)
>>     4. Re: PBS Incremental and stopped VM's (Lindsay Mathieson)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 23:28:50 +1000
>> From: Lindsay Mathieson <lindsay.mathieson at gmail.com>
>> To: pve-user at lists.proxmox.com
>> Subject: Re: [PVE-User] Revisited: External disk backup using PBS -
>>          Requesting Criticism/Advice?
>> Message-ID: <e92b8b56-e89f-928d-a3c8-7b423e334cf5 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>
>> On 10/04/2021 5:10 pm, Arjen via pve-user wrote:
>>> Don't expect to be able to backup the PBS container with 4TB to a 2TB
>> external drive.
>>
>> I only passed 2TB through and the actual backup data comes to 1.3TB
>>
>>>    The Datastore of a PSB does not compress much further and Proxmox VE
>> Backup will only backup virtual disks and not mountpoints or storages
>> passed from host, if I understand correctly.
>>
>>
>> I wondered that. Will be testing.
>>
>>> I suggest adding a virtual disk of 2TB to the PBS container (and format
>> it with ext4) which can be backed up by the Proxmox VE Backup.
>>
>>
>> Certainly a possibility.
>>
>>
>> I also wondered if it was practical to attach an external disk to PBS as
>> a Datastore, then detach it. A bit more manual, but doable.
>>
>>
>>> I would also run the PBS container (with virtual disk) on the cluster
>> instead on separate hardware which is a single point of failure. The local
>> PBS would be then just as reliable as your cluster.
>>
>>
>> I want to keep the storage separate from the cluster, in that regard the
>> local storage is a single point of failure, hence the need for offsite
>> storage as well :)
>>
>>
>>> Regarding safeness: I suggest doing a automated disaster recovery every
>> week to make sure it works as expected. Or at least partially, like
>> restoring the PBS from an external drive.
>>
>>
>> I'll definitely be testing restore options to check that it works.
>>
>>> Regarding practicality: I would have a remote PBS sync with your local
>> PBS instead of moving physical disks (but you mentioned before that that
>> was not really possible).
>>
>>
>> Alas :(
>>
>>
>> Perhaps I could do a backup on site, then physically move it offsite and
>> attach it to a offsite PBS server and then sync it remotely -
>> incremental backups over the net would be doable.
>>
>>
>> nb. Our NAS died, hence my increased investigation of this :) Definitely
>> want to go with a more open and targeted solution this time, the NAS was
>> a good appliance, but inflexible.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> --
>> Lindsay
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 23:36:23 +1000
>> From: Lindsay Mathieson <lindsay.mathieson at gmail.com>
>> To: pve-user at lists.proxmox.com
>> Subject: [PVE-User] PBS Incremental and stopped VM's
>> Message-ID: <ddef627d-5c5f-1358-4a9f-196ef5868e6e at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>>
>> I'm guessing only running VM's (with dirty bitmap support) can be
>> incrementally backed up?
>>
>>
>> Might be nice if we could schedule backups for only running VM's
>>
>> --
>> Lindsay
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2021 13:43:43 +0000
>> From: Arjen <leesteken at protonmail.ch>
>> To: Proxmox VE user list <pve-user at lists.proxmox.com>
>> Subject: Re: [PVE-User] PBS Incremental and stopped VM's
>> Message-ID:
>>
>> <yl4Q_yt8NBMZUuS35KwBK-5RtAEv6V0dJTE77Hp8lW3GAxzIAOU2ErfF0CMHI9y8NjUQKF5TBtgSGhQIaE3p5Sy-7ltAFX8NmbZJoSyHVAk=@
>> protonmail.ch>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>>
>> On Saturday, April 10th, 2021 at 15:36, Lindsay Mathieson <
>> lindsay.mathieson at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm guessing only running VM's (with dirty bitmap support) can be
>>>
>>> incrementally backed up?
>>>
>>> Might be nice if we could schedule backups for only running VM's
>> Just to be clear: PBS always makes a full backup. The resulting data is
>> deduplicated (before sending it to the server), which almost always reduces
>> the writes to the server. An administration of changed virtual disk blocks
>> is kept for running VMs, which only reduces the reads from VMs that have
>> not been restarted between backups. It data transfer over the network is
>> the bottleneck, you will have most benefit from the former (less changes,
>> less transfers). The latter only speeds up the backup due to less reads (of
>> unchanged data) from disk.
>>
>> best regards, Arjen
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Sun, 11 Apr 2021 00:06:19 +1000
>> From: Lindsay Mathieson <lindsay.mathieson at gmail.com>
>> To: pve-user at lists.proxmox.com
>> Subject: Re: [PVE-User] PBS Incremental and stopped VM's
>> Message-ID: <90b0f7df-ca15-f9cd-b76a-0f8f26e24917 at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>>
>> On 10/04/2021 11:43 pm, Arjen via pve-user wrote:
>>> Just to be clear: PBS always makes a full backup. The resulting data is
>> deduplicated (before sending it to the server), which almost always reduces
>> the writes to the server.
>>
>> Ah, I see now, thanks, I didn't understand that part of things. Looking
>> at the logs of my 2nd backup, I see that stopped VM's had zero bytes
>> written to the backup server.
>>
>> --
>> Lindsay
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of pve-user Digest, Vol 157, Issue 12
>> *****************************************
>>
>>