[PVE-User] pve-user Digest, Vol 125, Issue 10

Sun Aug 12 19:55:10 CEST 2018

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2018-08-09 13:00 GMT+03:00 <pve-user-request at pve.proxmox.com>:

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> Today's Topics:
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>    1. Re: How to use lvm on zfs ? (Denis Morejon)
>    2. Re: How to use lvm on zfs ? (Denis Morejon)
>    3. Re: How to use lvm on zfs ? (Andreas Heinlein)
>    4. Re: How to use lvm on zfs ? (dorsy)
>    5. Re: How to use lvm on zfs ? (Dietmar Maurer)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 09:23:16 -0400
> From: Denis Morejon <denis.morejon at etecsa.cu>
> To: pve-user at pve.proxmox.com
> Subject: Re: [PVE-User] How to use lvm on zfs ?
> Message-ID: <855155c1-e7fe-7bf4-116f-9253c49551d5 at etecsa.cu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
>
>
> El 07/08/18 a las 17:51, Yannis Milios escribió:
> >>   (zfs create -V 100G rpool/lvm) and make that a PV (pvcreate
> >>>> /dev/zvol/rpool/lvm) and make a VG (vgcreate pve /dev/zvol/rpool/lvm)
> >>>> and then a LV (lvcreate -L100% pve/data)
> >>>
> > Try the above as it was suggested to you ...
> >
> >
> >>> But I suspect I have no space to create an
> >>>> additional zfs volume since the one mounted on "/" occupied all the
> space
> >>
> > No, that's a wrong assumption, zfs does not pre-allocate the whole space
> of
> > the pool, even if looks like it does so. In short there is no need to
> > "shrink" the pool in order to create a zvol as it was suggested above...
> > Still, the whole idea of having LVM ontop of ZFS/zvol is a mess, but if
> you
> > insist, it's up to you ...
> > A combination of Linux RAID + LVM would look much more elegant in your
> > case, but for that you have to reinstall PVE by using the Debian iso.
> > During the installation create a linux raid array with lvm on top and
> then
> > add PVE repos ass described in the wiki:
> >
> > https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Install_Proxmox_VE_on_Debian_Jessie
> That's right. Now I understand that lvm/zfs would be a mess. Mainly because
> zfs doesn't create a block devices such as partitions on which I could
> do pvcreate ...
> and make It part of a lvm volumen group.
>
> After a (zfs create -V 100G rpool/lvm) a have to do a losetup to create
> a loop device an so on...
>
> Instead, I will keep zfs Raid mounted on "/" (local storage) on the last
> 4 Proxmox, remove the local-lvm storage from all Proxmox, and resize the
> local storage of the first 4 Proxmox . In such a way that all the 8
> Proxmox have just local storage making the migration of VMs between
> nodes easy.
>
>
> > _______________________________________________
> > pve-user mailing list
> > pve-user at pve.proxmox.com
> > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 09:32:48 -0400
> From: Denis Morejon <denis.morejon at etecsa.cu>
> To: pve-user at pve.proxmox.com
> Subject: Re: [PVE-User] How to use lvm on zfs ?
> Message-ID: <9c41b2c7-963f-cf92-81df-51eb028ef74a at etecsa.cu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> Why does Proxmox team have not incorporated a software Raid in the
> install process ? So that we could include redundancy and lvm advantages
> when using local disks.
>
>
>
>
> El 08/08/18 a las 09:23, Denis Morejon escribió:
> >
> >
> > El 07/08/18 a las 17:51, Yannis Milios escribió:
> >>>   (zfs create -V 100G rpool/lvm) and make that a PV (pvcreate
> >>>>> /dev/zvol/rpool/lvm) and make a VG (vgcreate pve /dev/zvol/rpool/lvm)
> >>>>> and then a LV (lvcreate -L100% pve/data)
> >>>>
> >> Try the above as it was suggested to you ...
> >>
> >>
> >>>> But I suspect I have no space to create an
> >>>>> additional zfs volume since the one mounted on "/" occupied all
> >>>>> the space
> >>>
> >> No, that's a wrong assumption, zfs does not pre-allocate the whole
> >> space of
> >> the pool, even if looks like it does so. In short there is no need to
> >> "shrink" the pool in order to create a zvol as it was suggested above...
> >> Still, the whole idea of having LVM ontop of ZFS/zvol is a mess, but
> >> if you
> >> insist, it's up to you ...
> >> A combination of Linux RAID + LVM would look much more elegant in your
> >> case, but for that you have to reinstall PVE by using the Debian iso.
> >> During the installation create a linux raid array with lvm on top and
> >> then
> >> add PVE repos ass described in the wiki:
> >>
> >> https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Install_Proxmox_VE_on_Debian_Jessie
> > That's right. Now I understand that lvm/zfs would be a mess. Mainly
> > because
> > zfs doesn't create a block devices such as partitions on which I could
> > do pvcreate ...
> > and make It part of a lvm volumen group.
> >
> > After a (zfs create -V 100G rpool/lvm) a have to do a losetup to
> > create a loop device an so on...
> >
> > Instead, I will keep zfs Raid mounted on "/" (local storage) on the
> > last 4 Proxmox, remove the local-lvm storage from all Proxmox, and
> > resize the local storage of the first 4 Proxmox . In such a way that
> > all the 8 Proxmox have just local storage making the migration of VMs
> > between nodes easy.
> >
> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> pve-user mailing list
> >> pve-user at pve.proxmox.com
> >> https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user
> >
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 14:40:38 +0200
> From: Andreas Heinlein <aheinlein at gmx.com>
> To: PVE User List <pve-user at pve.proxmox.com>, Denis Morejon
>         <denis.morejon at etecsa.cu>
> Subject: Re: [PVE-User] How to use lvm on zfs ?
> Message-ID: <00046e31-3c92-08d9-c00e-1def6d5f03e0 at gmx.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Am 08.08.2018 um 15:32 schrieb Denis Morejon:
> > Why does Proxmox team have not incorporated a software Raid in the
> > install process ? So that we could include redundancy and lvm
> > advantages when using local disks.
> Because ZFS offers redundancy and LVM features (and much more) in a more
> modern way, e.g. during a rebuild only used blocks need to be
> resilvered, resulting in much greater speed. ZFS is intended to entirely
> replace MD-RAID and LVM.
>
> Only drawback of ZFS is that it needs bare metal disk access and must
> not (or at least should not) be used with hardware RAID controllers.
> This makes it difficult to use with older hardware, e.g. HP ProLiants
> which only have HP SmartArray controllers as disk controllers. It is
> possible to put some RAID controllers in HBA mode, though ZFS docs
> advise against it.
>
> Andreas
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 14:55:58 +0200
> From: dorsy <dorsyka at yahoo.com>
> To: pve-user at pve.proxmox.com
> Subject: Re: [PVE-User] How to use lvm on zfs ?
> Message-ID: <4ca90484-40a1-502e-459a-1194b9f97e7f at yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
>
> I'd say that it is more convinient to support one method.
> Also mentioned in this thread that zfs could be considered to be a
> successor of MDraid+LVM.
>
> It is still a debian system with cutom kernel and some pve packages on
> top, so You could do anything just like on any standard debian system.
>
> On 8/8/18 3:32 PM, Denis Morejon wrote:
> > Why does Proxmox team have not incorporated a software Raid in the
> > install process ? So that we could include redundancy and lvm
> > advantages when using local disks.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > El 08/08/18 a las 09:23, Denis Morejon escribió:
> >>
> >>
> >> El 07/08/18 a las 17:51, Yannis Milios escribió:
> >>>>   (zfs create -V 100G rpool/lvm) and make that a PV (pvcreate
> >>>>>> /dev/zvol/rpool/lvm) and make a VG (vgcreate pve
> >>>>>> /dev/zvol/rpool/lvm)
> >>>>>> and then a LV (lvcreate -L100% pve/data)
> >>>>>
> >>> Try the above as it was suggested to you ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> But I suspect I have no space to create an
> >>>>>> additional zfs volume since the one mounted on "/" occupied all
> >>>>>> the space
> >>>>
> >>> No, that's a wrong assumption, zfs does not pre-allocate the whole
> >>> space of
> >>> the pool, even if looks like it does so. In short there is no need to
> >>> "shrink" the pool in order to create a zvol as it was suggested
> >>> above...
> >>> Still, the whole idea of having LVM ontop of ZFS/zvol is a mess, but
> >>> if you
> >>> insist, it's up to you ...
> >>> A combination of Linux RAID + LVM would look much more elegant in your
> >>> case, but for that you have to reinstall PVE by using the Debian iso.
> >>> During the installation create a linux raid array with lvm on top
> >>> and then
> >>> add PVE repos ass described in the wiki:
> >>>
> >>> https://pve.proxmox.com/wiki/Install_Proxmox_VE_on_Debian_Jessie
> >> That's right. Now I understand that lvm/zfs would be a mess. Mainly
> >> because
> >> zfs doesn't create a block devices such as partitions on which I
> >> could do pvcreate ...
> >> and make It part of a lvm volumen group.
> >>
> >> After a (zfs create -V 100G rpool/lvm) a have to do a losetup to
> >> create a loop device an so on...
> >>
> >> Instead, I will keep zfs Raid mounted on "/" (local storage) on the
> >> last 4 Proxmox, remove the local-lvm storage from all Proxmox, and
> >> resize the local storage of the first 4 Proxmox . In such a way that
> >> all the 8 Proxmox have just local storage making the migration of VMs
> >> between nodes easy.
> >>
> >>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> pve-user mailing list
> >>> pve-user at pve.proxmox.com
> >>> https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > pve-user mailing list
> > pve-user at pve.proxmox.com
> > https://pve.proxmox.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pve-user
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2018 15:04:55 +0200 (CEST)
> From: Dietmar Maurer <dietmar at proxmox.com>
> To: PVE User List <pve-user at pve.proxmox.com>, Denis Morejon
>         <denis.morejon at etecsa.cu>
> Subject: Re: [PVE-User] How to use lvm on zfs ?
> Message-ID: <1204557606.32.1533733495414 at webmail.proxmox.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> > Why does Proxmox team have not incorporated a software Raid in the
> > install process ?
>
> Because we consider mdraid unreliable and dangerous.
>
> > So that we could include redundancy and lvm advantages
> > when using local disks.
>
> Sorry, but we have software raid included - ZFS provides that.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of pve-user Digest, Vol 125, Issue 10
> *****************************************
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С уважением,
Токовенко Алексей Алексеевич