[PVE-User] Question

Venefax venefax at gmail.com
Mon Jan 12 09:55:47 CET 2009

Your perception of openVZ is flawed. I am a paying  customer of Virtuozzo
and my experience is that unless you have support from Parallels, nothing
would work, or everything would stop. OpenVZ requires to remember dozens of
commands and complex concepts to operate with the technology, while Xen's
learning curve is a lot shorter. Xen is easier to use and master than
anything else. Furthermore, the whole idea of "jails" is out of favor
because it does not truly isolate the performance of one container from the
next. That's what I read in the magazines. Xen is not going away because in
the case if Linux virtual machines, it provides a better performance the KVM
ever will, when you use paravirtualized guests. I have around 50 of them, in
Suse hosts, but all my guests are Centos 64. It works fine. I understand
that all hosting companies in the US use openVZ, but there is no money in
hosting. It is a dead-end industry. Besides, all of them use Plesk, from
Parallels, the maker of OpenVZ. I am using OpenVZ and will continue, but my
company and my clients --all of them--, have 100% of their business in Xen.
However, Windows performance in Xen is awful. I have already convinced
myself that full-virtualization will be a KVM-Only realm. But remember, for
every fully-virtualized VE, we have 100's of the other ones, Linux on Linux,
para-virtualized. I also have two Hyper-V servers, and the performance is
inferior to Xen, which is inferior to KVM.

Your concept of Cluster will compete head on with Xenserver from Citrix if
you can add the three schemes together, Xen, Open-VZ and KVM. I could not
envision wanting or needing anything else than Proxmox VE. 
Please understand one fact, if any. America is the largest economy, and
Americans cannot remember more than 10 commands. If they need to remember
11, they will find something else. That's why OpenVZ and Virtuozzo are
dead-end technologies. A couple of days ago a had a machine go down,
Virtuozzo-Windows, and it took the Russians 48 hours to get my clients back
in business. I can document this. No company can live with that. With Xen I
can reinstall Linux, copy my files from backup and be again in business in
less than 30 mins. I am not joking, it took 48 hours to the second line
engineers to rebuild my Virtuozzo-Windows installation.

-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Maurer [mailto:martin at proxmox.com] 
Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 3:35 AM
To: Venefax; proxmoxve
Subject: RE: [PVE-User] Question

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Venefax [mailto:venefax at gmail.com]
> Sent: Montag, 12. Jänner 2009 09:06
> To: Martin Maurer; 'proxmoxve'
> Subject: RE: [PVE-User] Question
> Also in Enterprise, in the US, nobody uses Openvz. It is out of favor.

Yes, but we are working to change that :-) 

OS virtualization has a lot of advantages compared to others and the main
problem is that most people just do not know it yet.
But also in US, a LOT of hosting companies uses OpenVZ.

> Everybody uses XEN when not paying for ESX. So if you could in your next
> release provide the three types of virtualization together, it will be a
> hit. But please do yourself a favor an create a "Clone" button.[Martin

KVM is our choice as it is for most open source developer. Major open source
virtualization companies are moving from XEN to KVM - the biggest one
(Redhat) bought the KVM company and decided to drop XEN as soon as possible.
Cloning: it would be nice, but it´s not the highest priority here. (see our
roadmap, these features will be next).

Br, Martin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Maurer [mailto:martin at proxmox.com]
> Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 2:51 AM
> To: Venefax; proxmoxve
> Subject: RE: [PVE-User] Question
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Venefax [mailto:venefax at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Montag, 12. Jänner 2009 08:40
> > To: Martin Maurer; 'proxmoxve'
> > Subject: RE: [PVE-User] Question
> >
> > If you had a yearly support contract with unlimited questions, like
> Red
> > Hat,
> > Suse and Canonical have, I would ask my boss to buy the subscription.
> > This
> > application is truly unique.
> > In the US your business model as pay per incident will not fly.
> > Federico
> Thanks for your point of view, we will think of extending the offering.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > Martin Maurer
> >
> > martin at proxmox.com
> > http://www.proxmox.com

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